Alan Jones and Richard Walker

Pagan Altar (AJ, RW); Solstice, Isen Torr (RW)

October 2008

Alan and Rich, thank you so much for participating in this special edition of "In Gear." Usually, I ask questions of an individual, but for this chat I'd like to ask special gear questions about your two-guitar approach to Pagan Altar's music.

From what I know, you both use Marshall amps. Is this what you both have been using all along, or did you make a conscious choice for both of you to use Marshalls? Did you ever consider using different amps to differentiate your individual tones? 

(AL) My Dad bought me a Marshall M1 50 watt for my 11th birthday and i have always liked Marshall's since. When we play abroad I will always use a Marshall if I have the choice, but if not I'll just make do with what's there.

(R) I used to use a JMP Lead 100 (A 1970's model) which was a great head, but unfortunately, I  used it in conjunction with a load of crap gear (Jackson guitar, Boss pedals) so I never realized its full potential. My own mistake there: call it not listening properly and just youthful ignorance in trying to achieve the heaviest possible sound--I had a total sludgy mess. Over the years I've also played through a Vox AC30 (nice little combo amp) and a Marshall JCM 200 DSL, which was the last Marshall head I owned. I've just changed anyway now to a custom Matamp GT Retro 200w head; the tone is crushing. It ROOOAAAAAARRRSSSS!

(AL) When I was 15, I got a Marshall M2 which is the same amp I still use today (JMP).Most of the inside has changed through the years but it sounds as good as it always has.

(R) My Marshall of choice would be the exact same as Al's, a JMP 100 Lead (1970's), failing that a JCM 800, and failing that a JCM 2000 DSL, but I'd rather avoid Mesa Boogie (Overated, sounds like a lawnmower) or Laney. Both I've found are not really what I want. They are OK for more modern sounds, but not for me.

What cabinets do you use? I'm also curious about what kind of speakers are in your cabinets. Have either of you experimented with different cabinets or speakers to achieve your tone?

(AL) I have a Marshal 4x12 and a WEM 4x14 but we don't carry them around nowadays. I normally just take the head.

(R) I use a Matamp 2 x 15 cabinet in conjunction with my head. Again, after many years trying various set ups, this gave me the sound I desired. Jeff at Matamp actually built me two different 4 x 12's loaded with different speakers, but neither had the same tone, one was too thin sounding, the other too muddy. After playing through a 2 x 15, if given the choice I will never go back. Obviously, I can't get these at non-UK gigs, so I'll be happy with a Marshall set up.

Do you both use distortion or overdrive pedals, or do you get your gain from the amp? What other effects do you use at gigs?

(AL) I now use a Boss ME50 which is just for a bit of lift in the solos and a bit of repeat on some of the songs. It also gives me a clean sound for picking, etc. 

(R) I use a volume pedal, and a distortion set at 9 o clock, and some gain from the amp. If we travel to non-UK gigs I'll just take my spare volume pedal and a tuner and overdrive the amp. Sometimes, because of the huge variety in quality you get with Marshalls these days it doesn't have enough gain, so I'm pretty fucked. Other times I'll take my pedal board and it will still sound shite because the amp is totally crap anyway. Also on my pedal board I have an effects loop, a phaser ,and an EQ pedal.  The EQ and Phaser are rigged together for some picking parts, if I can remember to switch over or Diccon doesn't jog me from behind and break my concentration that is, ha ha. I used to use a Zoom effects unit, pretty similar to Al's Boss one, but I gave it to Pat from Warning as a gift as I am more into separate pedals. The only other effect I might use is a bit of delay in SOLSTICE for some of the lead parts.

At what volume do you usually set your amps for gigs? Do you have any quirky settings, or do you turn all knobs on 10? 

(AL) We don't normally get a lot of time to muck around that much, but I try to get it sounding as near to to my sound as I can then leave it to the sound engineer to sort it out at the front. I don't like it too loud at the back--just enough so I can hear it from behind and in the monitors. 

(R) 11 of course, what else? What are you trying to insinuate, John?

Alan, how do you think your guitar tone, especially for leads, blends with Rich's SG rhythm tone?

(Al) Onstage I use an 1984 Ibanez Artist, which has quite a clean sound and cuts over Rich's SG when it needs to. I must admit I don't get to hear Rich that much onstage, even when half the time I'm trying to get his guitar in my monitor.

(R) That's probably for the best…I'm usually playing in the style of Les Dawson.   

(AL) I have put Dimarzio pick-ups on the Ibanez and changed the wammy bar, which was crap on the original guitar. Diccon has done a complete overall on the guitar and it plays fantastic now.    

Rich, where do you think your SG tone sits in the mix of Pagan Altar, at least at gigs? That is, what do you think is your "tonal purpose," if I may put it that way?

(R) I have no idea, I like to fill those frequencies between Al and Diccon and fatten up the sound of PA and provide a good rhythmic backbone to Al's lead playing, that's all I think.

Rich, is your main SG stock, or have you altered it in some way?

(R) My 1968 is a custom, but I don't play out with that anymore, as it's too valuable. My 1973 is a Special, with twin mini-humbucker.  I'm halfway fucking around with it, just generally deciding which band to use it for. Most likely it will enter service with SOLSTICE and be tuned down to B, and I'll replace the tuners with Grover locking ones, etc., might even put new PU's in, we'll see. For PA I just use a stock modern Standard SG. It does the trick, don't need to fuck around with it, unless Diccon touches it, then I have to disinfect it, because he's got germs... .

Alan, what is your vision for your guitar tone when you enter the studio? I don't think your recorded tone has changed much since the early days of Pagan Altar, but perhaps you have a different (and better-informed!) opinion on this. Have you heard
your tone evolve over the years? Have you reached your tonal goals, or are you still searching? 

(AL) The last two albums were done on our own equipment so I had the chance to use more than one guitar. I also used the simulated Marshall sound which went into the desk and didn't make any noise outside the earphones. Not very rock and roll but it kept the neighbours happy.  

Do you make your own microphone choices in the studio, or do you leave that to the engineer or producer? Do you know what microphones and recording gear were used to record the guitars on your last record? 

(AL) We have bought all the gear we use and generally stick to the same format. I never used any mics to record the guitars on the last record the were all straight in. I used a Ovation bow back for the acoustic parts.   

(R) For SOLSTICE and ISEN TORR, I trust Andreas at Rosenquarz; he's the man. I like to be amped and miked. I also like him to shut the fuck up and do some work every so often. Only joking there, Andreas, you blind cunt.

Where do you see your tone headed, Rich? Are you happy where it is now, or are there elements of your personal sound you'd like to improve? Do you think your tone has been a matter of choosing the right gear, or is it more a matter of your playing style?  

(R) I can see it heading into the deepest voids of outer space. For me, I think I'm pretty much there, and it's thanks to Tom Phillips and his advice that I moved out of my personal dark age of guitaring. With a better tone, I feel more confident, and I can hear what I am playing (and in particular with a lot of chord layering and inversions and diminished chords I use with SOLSTICE, that's only a good thing). It also works for PAGAN ALTAR, because with the right choice of gear, I can just plug in, and hey, my guitar sound is still as heavy as I require it, just a different tuning. It's as I said: a little heavier than Al's, but Nick of LITANY said, Al's a heavy rock guitarist, and I am a heavy metal guitarist--that's kind of the difference. Make sense? No? Ah, fuck it then!

What are you both tuned to? What gauge and type of strings do you use? Does your tuning reflect your musical vision, or does your tuning instead influence how you will write and play? Have you experimented with drop tunings or other oddities?

(AL) I just use Normal tuning. I had never heard of tuning down to z until recently and I think I would only use them strings that loose for archery.

(R) With PAGAN ALTAR, we tune to E, with SOLSTICE I tune to B. I love drop tuning; it opens up a whole new terrifying vista of song writing possibilities…woooooooooooahhhh! I use Ernie ball strings; they have the best life span and sound, but I usually change them every few gigs. I use 9's with PAGAN ALTAR, sometimes 10's if I'm feeling metal. I use 12's with SOLSTICE, with a wound G.

If your Marshalls and your guitars were out of commission, what would you replace them with, if you could choose any amp and guitar?

(AL) Definitely a Stinger Amp and a Starfire Guitar.

(R) Like Al, a Stinger stack, but a Kay guitar with built-in distortion, and strings like cheesewire.

Thank you both for the wonderful opportunity for this chat...and for plugging Starfire and Kay guitars. Ha.